Andrew Sullivan | The Daily Dish: I'm Worse Than Haggard

Link: Andrew Sullivan | The Daily Dish: I'm Worse Than Haggard. 06 Nov 2006 01:04 pm

National Review gets personal:

    "I hope Ted Haggard does pray for Andrew Sullivan, because it is Sullivan and those on his side of the culture war who do much greater damage to our lives."

Earlier on, the author, David Klinghoffer makes the following argument:

    "This is why gay marriage threatens heterosexual marriage. When the awe in which people once held matrimony is diluted, by treating it as a man-made and thus amendable institution rather than a divinely determined one, heterosexuals find sexual sins of all sorts harder to resist."

It's an argument. And it is unpersuasive to me. But whether you agree with it or not, notice its logical basis: civil marriage is a "divinely determined one." The laws of this country are divinely determined. This is not close to a theocratic worldview. It is one.

In saying that this is a "theocratic worldview" misses the point.  Klinghoffer is simply historically inaccurate.  The bible itself is filled with arranged marriages. In all religions marriages arranged for political, economic, diplomatic and military reasons, having nothing to do with divine providence, are commonplace throughout history.  Marriages have been dissolved and annulled by Churches for those same reasons. The idea that "treating it as a man-made and thus amendable institution" is somehow a new, different, or unusual phenomenon is the height of revisionism.  Marriage has never been exclusively "sacred." It has always been used and abused and the idea that gay marriage would further either use or abuse it is simply without foundation. 

Again, no one is asking anyone to force a church to marry people they don't want to marry. This has everything to do with a man-made institution and nothing to do with a utopian delusion of the "the awe in which people once held matrimony."  This is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with a theocratic worldview.  This is about disagreeing with historical innacuracy.  Or should I say, disagreeing with a simple lie.

Comments

[JR]

Responding to Phil:

I disagree that the gay marriage ballot initiatives have been fueled by "bible bashers." It is far to effective a strategic, get-out-the-vote, move to be left to a relatively small if vocal wing of the Republican party. It is fueled much further up the food chain in order to get the "bible bashers" to the polls. I also strongly disagree with pigeon holing those bible bashers. You have to come up with a much better argument for gay marriage than "the bible is stupid." In the United States that won't fly. After all the anti gay marriage initiatives were passed by the same people who just moved to the middle and elected a democratic congress. Americans distrust government and power but can be swayed by populism. In the majority they are not stupid or cruel and I think the strategy of bashing the bible bashers and arrogantly putting them down, is not only a bad strategy, it is unfair to a legitimate viewpoint who's fanatical, and therefore noticeable, followers may be at the fringe, but who are generally not out of the mainstream.

Finally, even after having spent three years in England at University, I am always surprised that people from across the ocean view our claims for Hope and freedom with disdain. We are not perfect, to be sure, but somehow we muddle through. We will have our first woman Speaker of the House, it looks like. We have a man of African heritage being touted as a contender for the Presidency. We had a black Secretary of State who was also the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. We have a conservative African American on our Supreme Court. We have a Latino as our Attorney General. The daughter of the Vice President is openly gay. Although you might disdain this as the illogic of the bible, judge not lest ye be judged, leaps to mind.

[Phil]

Im sure theres an old long lost saying that goes: Better man show love for another man than show hate for wife:
This whole gay marriage thing is fuelled by the bible bashers who cant seem to get out the annoying habit of quoting the bible at every opportunity.
The bible was of its time. It is hardly relevant to todays thinking or way of life. To live by it is to do away with reason and logic and research by scholars and archeologists has shown that so much of it is just not compatable with acheological evidence.
Besides Andrew,I would hardly think you are worse than Ted Haggard.
You have never hidden behind a veil of hypocrisy Preaching good ole solid family values while playing a bit of " hows you father" with one of the boys. Like you ,I am also British,And am perplexed at the divisions that the gay marriage question has caused in America.
Land of Hope and Freedom.Not in my lifetime.And certainly not if your gay,black or any other ethnic minority.